Re-Reading Together: Assassin's Apprentice
Re-Reading The Books, From The Beginning, Together! :D
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26-08-2013, 09:14,
Messaggio: #1
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Re-Reading Together: Assassin's Apprentice
Hi Everyone!
So here is the newest idea: a re-reading of the books from the beginning, together THE RULEZ 1. Every week we will read 2 chapters of the books. 2. We will post here our toughts, ideas, dreams, wild speculations (the wildest the better!) about what we have read so far 3. Spoiler for the book in the title are a given, but spoilers for ALL the other books need to be put in the usual format! 4. Every monday we will start to speculate about the next two chapters. We will make a topic per book Today we start with... *drumrolls* Chapter 1: The Earliest History and Chapter 2: Newboy I'll make soon a post about my own thoughts, idea and wild speculations (The topic is in the english side of the forum because I have invited Garetha and a french girl to chat with us! ) I've never seen the Icarus story as a lesson about the limitations of humans.
I see it as a lesson about the limitations of wax. “What else should you be? Human beings didn't evolve brains in order to lie around on lakes. Killing's the first thing we learned. And a good thing we did, or we'd be dead, and the tigers would own the earth.” ― Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game |
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26-08-2013, 13:04,
Messaggio: #2
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
The Earliest History First thing I find very interesting the beginning of the book ò.ò The whole tale of the Farseers as kings and the introduction of our narrator, our Fitzy. I like Fitzy from there hence I think this introduction is very important, as it flavours the whole book, and arguably the whole trilogy. We learn two interesting things: one is that Chiv didn't behave in a very, well, chivalrous way: Citazione:“I’ve fed him at my table for six years, and never a word from his father, never a coin, never a visit, though my daughter gives me to to understand he knows he fathered a bastard on her."It ain't very nice, isn't it? I mean, he could have sent some money, right? He was King-In-Waiting, come on! The second is what I truly believe is a blunder by Verity. True to his name, he doesn't hush the fact that Fitz is Chiv's bastard and pretend he is just a child. After all, who knew in that day when Fitz's grandfather left him at the door of the castle? The soldier who opened the door and the man he reported to, namely Verity. Somebody with a bit more of diplomacy may have said to the soldier to keep his mouth shut and Fitz's life wouldn't have forever hence be the one of "the Bastard". But Verity is verity, and so he tells the soldier to take care of it. As Regal will say, soon after: Citazione:Everyone here knows of his existence; Verity’s clumsiness saw to that. And so Fitz is given to Burrich, not in a good way, in the misdt of the soldier's hall, and a lot of bad things will happen from it. Citazione:His [Burrich's] eyes met mine, and there was a sort of wildness in them, as if what he saw in my face were an injury I’d done him.Burrich discovers what he believes is a betrayal from Chiv's in perhaps the worst way possible, in a moment when he already was phisically weak. He doesn't do well, in the beginning, to Fitz, but we can understand him, can we not? Soon later we also start to have the first whiff of one of Fitz's magic, when Fitzy shares the thought of Nosy. And, immediatly after, we meet Regal, and know that both he and his mother probably would have been rather happy to have Fitzy quietly dispatched. I do wonder if the Fool, already in Buckkeep, had put a flea in Shrewd's ear about it... This does sound like him, doesn't it? Citazione:“Don’t do what you can’t undo, until you’ve considered what you can’t do once you’ve done it.’" I admit I feel for Chiv a little. To have to leave everything behind, and to go in a place where his abilities were for sure underused... it must not have been easy. Not at all. But the Earliest History of Fitz is best described in the last phrase of the chapter: Citazione:I grew up fatherless and motherless in a court where all recognized me as a catalyst. And a catalyst I became.Forevermore, Fitz is The Catalyst. And so, it begins... I've never seen the Icarus story as a lesson about the limitations of humans.
I see it as a lesson about the limitations of wax. “What else should you be? Human beings didn't evolve brains in order to lie around on lakes. Killing's the first thing we learned. And a good thing we did, or we'd be dead, and the tigers would own the earth.” ― Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game |
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26-08-2013, 16:45,
Messaggio: #3
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
Looks like Tiz has covered several of the notable points. I'll add that there's also a passing reference to "three young women in motley and bells" at Buckkeep when they arrive. Tiz and I had speculated about who might have brought Beloved to Buckkeep and taught him all his tumbling tricks; could it be that these ladies are friends of his, who stayed on until the festival season to see him settled in? Or is it all a coincidence? Frankly, I'd like to believe the former... especially since, as far as I can recall, we don't see a single other jester in motley for the rest of the series.
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27-08-2013, 17:18,
Messaggio: #4
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
Always the last…Sadly a bad habit of mine…
And it's my first post ever on a forum... The Earliest History Answer to Tiz: Chivalry did all he could to not attract attention over Fitz by…playing the indifferent card. Is it possible he couldn’t afford giving the mother’s family money without risking someone learning about his bastard? Seeing how Chivalry mysteriously (cough cough) died once he left Buckheep, getting rid of an illegitimate son was very easy in comparison... I’m very happy to see a merry Verity again. His clumsiness was expected: he’s not the kind of person to see schemes everywhere (he seemed to have a hard time understanding Regal) and certainly not in a child who looks like his good big brother. Moreover he liked his uncle C. In fact, Fitz would have certainly not been a problem had not Regal and his mother insisted on him being one (oh the irony when I think about G.). I’m not sure at that moment Burrich felt betrayed by Chiv. He should have reacted sooner, right when he saw Fitzy, whereas here I think he react to the fact Jason said Fitz looked a lot like his father. And what he said after was about the emotions Patience would feel. Burrich think a lot about Patience in this chapter. <3 Did anyone else, the first time they read this chapter, see Burrich as some kind of old man instead of the young man he really is? “I do wonder if the Fool, already in Buckkeep, had put a flea in Shrewd's ear about it... This does sound like him, doesn't it?” Hehe, yeah. But Shrewd isn’t an idiot either then it’s difficult to know… I wonder just how much Chivalry and Fitzy are alike... Answer to Garetha: Those women had always intrigued me (yeah, motleys can scream), but I have never thought about them being the ones who instructed the Fool. Thank you very much for that! <3 |
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27-08-2013, 21:25,
Messaggio: #5
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
(27-08-2013, 17:18)AndromedaAries Ha scritto: Always the last…Sadly a bad habit of mine… First ever? Well welcome darling then! (27-08-2013, 17:18)AndromedaAries Ha scritto: The Earliest History Good point. He may have done it to avoid leaving a track to Fitzy... but in the long run it didn't help... ò.ò (27-08-2013, 17:18)AndromedaAries Ha scritto: I’m very happy to see a merry Verity again. You are right that Queen Desire and Regal played a lot the Fitz-Card against Chiv, but it was also a cultural thing, I believe ò.ò (27-08-2013, 17:18)AndromedaAries Ha scritto: I’m not sure at that moment Burrich felt betrayed by Chiv. He should have reacted sooner, right when he saw Fitzy, whereas here I think he react to the fact Jason said Fitz looked a lot like his father. And what he said after was about the emotions Patience would feel. Burrich think a lot about Patience in this chapter. <3 You are right! We can already see that Assassin Quest [leggi] (27-08-2013, 17:18)AndromedaAries Ha scritto: “I do wonder if the Fool, already in Buckkeep, had put a flea in Shrewd's ear about it... This does sound like him, doesn't it?” Hehe, yeah. But Shrewd isn’t an idiot either then it’s difficult to know… Perhaps a bit of both the Fool and Shrewd... Everybody says that Chiv and Fitz are veeeery similar °-° So... (27-08-2013, 17:18)AndromedaAries Ha scritto: Answer to Garetha: Yup, the timing is right, too. It is said that I don't remember, Fool Errand perhaps? [leggi] I love you all girls I've never seen the Icarus story as a lesson about the limitations of humans.
I see it as a lesson about the limitations of wax. “What else should you be? Human beings didn't evolve brains in order to lie around on lakes. Killing's the first thing we learned. And a good thing we did, or we'd be dead, and the tigers would own the earth.” ― Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game |
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29-08-2013, 14:59,
Messaggio: #6
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
Yeah…I lost my forum-virginity to Blood Memories.
But still don't know how to quote. XD The Earliest History "Good point. He may have done it to avoid leaving a track to Fitzy... but in the long run it didn't help... ò.ò" Who knows…maybe he hoped once Patience and he would have a child, he could take Fitz with him… or give his family money. "You are right that Queen Desire and Regal played a lot the Fitz-Card against Chiv, but it was also a cultural thing, I believe ò.ò" I don’t think it had to do with any kind of cultural reason… They were searching for any excuse to oust Chiv. Verity would have not reacted so casually had it really meant risking his brother’s position and Chivalry chose to abdicate, nothing obliged him to, and I believed everyone accepted it since Chivalry was like his name and just as stubborn as any Farseer (he married the woman he loved, after all). I’m sure Regal and Queen Desire didn’t even need to say anything… Shrewd, from what Regal said, thought Fitz was a good thing for Chivalry. And Chivalry being a good diplomat could have made of this event a good thing had he wanted (it wasn’t his first scandal and Fitzy was nothing to be ashamed of. I’d even say people were relieved Chiv has an heir and was…well, human XD). Regal (like his mother) was simply afraid that Fitz (with the same strong and awesome blood than his father) would finish establishing Chivalry’s position as a future king and that he would be as loved as his father… crushing all of Regal’s hopes of becoming the king. Then Fitz would have been in great danger. Whereas, by claiming the disgrace, he made of Fitz the bastard of a “shameful” prince. No need for Regal to kill him…yet. In another hand, there was Patience who would be even more mocked than before, because that child was the proof she was at fault if they were childless, when she’s already seen as a mediocre queen and a misalliance (and Shrewd didn’t like Patience then it was a bonus for him). I believe abdication was the only way Chivalry found to “save” everyone. I think Burrich must be around 25. When Fitz’s about 15 (and meets Kettricken), Verity is 32 (33 the next summer Fitz said to Kettricken), then he is around 24 in this chapter. Burrich is younger than Chivalry who’s older than Verity by…3 years? If I remember correctly of course, then yes, 25 or younger I’d say. Young and already awesome! Yeah, it was in Fool's Errand. It's just awfully hard for me to think with seasons instead of a real calendar. If I understand then, Fitz arrived at Buckheep in (full) Spring (which made him arrived in Mooneye in late Winter/early Spring, as the seasons aren't the same in the Mountains and in the Coast), then the Fool in Winter (maybe for the celebration of the mid-season) right? I'm horrible at this. XD Should we also speak about Newboy ? |
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30-08-2013, 16:06,
Messaggio: #7
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
(29-08-2013, 14:59)AndromedaAries Ha scritto: Yeah…I lost my forum-virginity to Blood Memories. I had a strong impression that bastards were considered bad for royalties... ò.ò you didn't have it? And yes, Chiv overreacted. A lot. I am pondering newboy right now it is an important part of Fitzy's life, for all it is short, so I want to think on it ò.ò I've never seen the Icarus story as a lesson about the limitations of humans.
I see it as a lesson about the limitations of wax. “What else should you be? Human beings didn't evolve brains in order to lie around on lakes. Killing's the first thing we learned. And a good thing we did, or we'd be dead, and the tigers would own the earth.” ― Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game |
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30-08-2013, 16:30,
Messaggio: #8
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
Newboy is certainly an important chapter. I would wager it is one of the most important ones in all the trilogies in Fitz's development. I'll explain why in the end.
First of all, I was really sorry for Fitzy Here, for example: Citazione:A few showed pity in their eyes, but none interfered. Some of what I was feeling passed to Nosy, who dropped over onto his side and showed his belly in supplication while thumping his tail in that ancient canine signal that always means, “I’m only a puppy. I cannot defend myself. Have mercy.” Had they been dogs, they would have sniffed me over and then drawn back. But humans have no such inbred courtesies. So when I didn’t answer, the man drew a step nearer and repeated, “You got a name, boy?” He is just a child. Abandoned by mother and father and quite tormented by that nasty man. He just wants to be left alone It wasn't a show of temper or of spirit. Poor cub... Then Fitz "falls in" with the group of half-abandoned children. And becomes Newboy. This is the lasttime in his life when he is not what he will become later on. And he will try to recapture it again and again. Without, of course, the least bit of luck. Lets remember that Fitz is six here. He had a shock, an incredible shock by being abandoned by his mother. He has lapsed, as some children do in such circustance, in a sort of elective mutism and had dwelt too deep already in his bond with Nosy. He is, even if he doesn't completely realize it, losing himself. Not incidentally, he meets Molly here, too, and she becames in his mind ensnared by something he was for just a summer in his sixth year: Newboy. A person he is not. A respite for a pain too great for a child. Newboy begins more or less with his mother abandonement and ends with the searing of the Wit-Bond with Nosy. Two pains, too close and too raw. Small wonder that Fitz tries, again and again, later on, to recapture the feeling he had during this last summer of his true childhood when he was trying to cope with pain by vanishing inside his wit-bond with Nosy* and disappearing inside the group of Buckkeep's kids. He will try to recapture it later on, both Fool's Fate [leggi] In Newboy, we also see a little Catalyst, just as we soon will see a little Prophet. I have found this exchange between Burrich and Fitz particularly telling: Citazione:He turned to face me, outraged. “You don’t know?” he growled. “I tell you where it will lead, and you say you don’t know?” *And he truly was losing himself, had the bond not been cut, Fitz would have likely became an half-wit. Already he was losing his ability to speak. I've never seen the Icarus story as a lesson about the limitations of humans.
I see it as a lesson about the limitations of wax. “What else should you be? Human beings didn't evolve brains in order to lie around on lakes. Killing's the first thing we learned. And a good thing we did, or we'd be dead, and the tigers would own the earth.” ― Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game |
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02-09-2013, 21:35,
Messaggio: #9
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
I usually see bastards as a rather bad thing for royalty too. *nod* But the place of bastard in the Six Duchies is a little more ambiguous I believe
Spoiler [leggi] And if I’m all wrong, at least it will help someone proving s/he’s right. Newboy Yeah, you explained it quite well. I don’t have much to add about little Fitzy. Maybe, just a little Catalyst’s doing (one of many ) : Because Fitz didn’t wait for Cob to come back from the kitchen/didn’t come back directly to Burrich, he wasn’t presented to Shrewd this day. Had he been, maybe he would have never been Newboy and the Fitz we know. What else could I quote? You mentioned Burrich’s feelings toward Chiv’s betrayal in the first chapter and I slightly disagreed at the time. I’m still not convinced Burrich saw in Fitz Chiv’s betrayal straightaway, mostly because at the time Chiv hadn’t left him behind yet. I wanted to come back to it because Fitz described Burrich’s feelings about his wound: I think unconsciously he transferred his feelings of betrayal on it (anger, despair…) and it’s not a coincidence if his wound (he got to save Chiv) didn’t heal well, despite his great knowing. Spoiler [leggi] And a little mention of the Red Ships Raiders to introduce smoothly a part of the plot of the book. |
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02-09-2013, 21:48,
Messaggio: #10
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RE: Re-Reading Together: Assassin Apprentice
You know, Andromeda, you make a very good point about the fact that the wound Burrich get defending Chiv didn't heal well... it could perfectly be a way to show his feeling on it. Burrich has no true way to show what he feel, and so he somatize it... Poor Burrichounet (is this right? Like Fitzounet? )
Now, from today we start with... Chapter 3: Covenant and Chapter 4: Apprenticeship I'll make soon a post about my own thoughts, idea and wild speculations I've never seen the Icarus story as a lesson about the limitations of humans.
I see it as a lesson about the limitations of wax. “What else should you be? Human beings didn't evolve brains in order to lie around on lakes. Killing's the first thing we learned. And a good thing we did, or we'd be dead, and the tigers would own the earth.” ― Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game |
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